Does anyone take me seriously?

The only way you can know if your measurement of the position of the electron
is accurate is if you can predict its next measurement based on its momentum and
whatever forces/laws it is obeying.

Thus to say that its position was measured accurately but not its momentum
would be a logical impossibility.

There are clearly one or more forces/laws acting on the electron which have not
been ascertained.

To say the observer is affecting it is merely an assumption.

My view is that it is a bit more intricate than that. I don't think looking at one aspect of an experiment means you cannot be aware of other aspects of an experiment. Electrons may or may not exist, I do not know.

Mayflow wrote:“A chicken must come from an egg, but an egg does not have to come from a chicken”

-Mayflow

Greylorn, what I said about uncertainty principle is not from textbooks but from my own personal current understandings, so go ahead and tell me what you think it means or be a chicken. I will post quotes or copy text sometimes but I try to give the credit where I can tell best it originated from – always a grey  area, my for lorn friend, for who knows where what quote originated from where – I will maybe make a new topic of this one of these days, but perchance can you be an egg and not a chicken and tell me in your own words what the uncertainty principle means?

Mayflow,

I think that the phrase "uncertainty principle" is generally assumed to reference the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle from quantum physics, unless specified to have some other meaning.  It is a mathematical inequality that applies to subatomic particles (e.g. electrons) at the level of quantum measurements.  It relates two properties of matter, position and momentum (the product of a particle's mass and velocity), defining the balance between their measurement imprecision in terms of Planck's constant, an arcane number familiar even to those whose last QM course was taken a half century ago.  

Put simply, if you precisely measure the electron's position at a given point in time, you know nothing about its momentum.  Likewise if you precisely measure its momentum you have no clue as to where the darned thing was.

I just want to hear (see) his description of the uncertainty principle. I also want to see if he is just a chicken, or if he is an egg, or even if he could be a luminous egg - well he probably is, but can he come to understand this? Perhaps they taught him this in a 301 QM class?

To the dark side this one has turned m'lady.
To use the force perhaps it is possible
and his avatar be amended accordingly:

“A chicken must come from an egg, but an egg does not have to come from a chicken”

-Mayflow

Greylorn, what I said about uncertainty principle is not from textbooks but from my own personal current understandings, so go ahead and tell me what you think it means or be a chicken. I will post quotes or copy text sometimes but I try to give the credit where I can tell best it originated from – always a grey  area, my for lorn friend, for who knows where what quote originated from where – I will maybe make a new topic of this one of these days, but perchance can you be an egg and not a chicken and tell me in your own words what the uncertainty principle means?

Jonathan Ainsley Bain wrote:look mommy, our big boy did another caca-poopoo
well done cowboy
now next time lets see if you can do it in the potty
what a big boy!

There's an old racist joke that you might appreciate, given your fixation upon excrement.  It goes: Why did the ***** leave their outhouse?  Answer:  the ******** down below were making too much noise.  

I'm inclined to change the pejorative punchline to, "Jonathan Ainsley Bain bought the place.  So they all left."  

Jonathan, with every simpleminded puerile post you make, you demonstrate that you have no ability to contribute to any conversation that pretends to discuss imaginative ideas.  Why are you here? If you need to get laid, just pay for it.

Mayflow wrote:What is funny is that the topic is “Does anyone take me seriously?” Then the cowboy thing. That is funny. BTW I live in Texas btw, where the Dallas cowboys play.

They do get a lot of enthusiastic cheerleading though.

I don't even care if I take myself seriously much less others. After all who am I? Is there an I? Is it permanent? Where does it reside? Can it be quantified? Does it (if it is even real if even ephemerally so) have a certain position and a certain speed? Just because you may think you have measured something does not make it so.

The uncertainty principle is that when you are measuring one aspect of something, another aspect is in process of being changed by the measurement. It is often thought that the uncertainty principle is different than the observer effect, but I don't think that is true as I do think they are inter related, and I do think everything is inter related.

Reality Girl,

Your interpretation of the Uncertainty Principle is incorrect.  Perhaps you copied it from a popular metaphysical book.  You certainly did not learn it from a 301 level QM class.  

With your post of the DC Cheerleaders photo, a way-too-skinny gang of irrelevant females, you are directing an originally promising forum into irrelevant oblivion.  

Why?

What is funny is that the topic is “Does anyone take me seriously?” Then the cowboy thing. That is funny. BTW I live in Texas btw, where the Dallas cowboys play.

They do get a lot of enthusiastic cheerleading though.

I don't even care if I take myself seriously much less others. After all who am I? Is there an I? Is it permanent? Where does it reside? Can it be quantified? Does it (if it is even real if even ephemerally so) have a certain position and a certain speed? Just because you may think you have measured something does not make it so.

The uncertainty principle is that when you are measuring one aspect of something, another aspect is in process of being changed by the measurement. It is often thought that the uncertainty principle is different than the observer effect, but I don't think that is true as I do think they are inter related, and I do think everything is inter related.

look mommy, our big boy did another caca-poopoo
well done cowboy
now next time lets see if you can do it in the potty
what a big boy!

Jonathan Ainsley Bain wrote:With the abundance of such subject matter that you supply me with,
there is little option but do do just that.

You're such a BADASS little cartoon cowboy after all.

J.A.B.,

Any ignorant, and determined to stay that way, dipstick can call someone a nasty name.  

An intelligent person could actually reply to comments in a pertinent and thoughtful fashion.  You are showing yourself for who you are.

With the abundance of such subject matter that you supply me with,
there is little option but do do just that.

You're such a BADASS little cartoon cowboy after all.

Jonathan Ainsley Bain wrote:

greylorn wrote:

Jonathan Ainsley Bain wrote:It seems like it was daddy more than mommy that was mean to him
because he seems to be suffering from some sort of penile territorialism.

Its quite a common disorder in post-warfare society.
Though it is something of a mystery as to why it only affects some and not others
who come from the same environment/upbringing/genetic origin.

I reckon the key concept is simply: 'free choice'.

Whatever happened to the "be nice" component of this forum, O Ignorant Dipshit?  Oh, I get it.  It means "be nice" to the "Forum Physicist," and agree with his bullshit.  

I've found that the best way to expose forum bullshit artists is to confront them.  You've shown yourself to be a relatively ignorant person, incapable of defending his nonsense, quick to resort to puerile insults in lieu of cogent conversation.  Consider yourself exposed for the minuscule mind your irrelevant writings reflect.

Well you're getting free psychoanalysis.
That's quite a nice thing, I reckon.

I trace the history of penile territorialism back to the time of Abraham.
It is a culture based on the notion that one can somehow be 'in control'
by seemingly dominating the sexual territory through a process of
attempting to demasculinate the 'other'. It also has its roots in homo-eroticism
and the pedophalic notion of the circumcision ritual. Most specifically
it centers around a subconscious castration anxiety and early childhood trauma.

Notice how the subject states that he is 'confronting bullshit'.
This is an attempt to eradicate the fears associated with the fixation
in what Freud calls the 'anal' phase of development.

This process is often seen in lower forms of primates, where they
attempt to assert their dominance by flinging faeces at their rivals.

Obviously this is quite redundant behavior in the information age.

Prospective mothers take note: This is how your children grow up to
be potty-mouthed adults - when they struggle with fixation in the phase
of development associated with toilet-training.

Its seems, Mayflow, that you may be correct after-all.
His mama didn't train him to  deal with has caca quite so effectively
as I had first considered.

J.A.B.,

The free analysis is worth every penny.

I see that you have made an extensive study of psychological issues regarding penile problems and scat-flinging expertise among mindless animals with single-digit I.Q.s on a good day.  I've not been particularly interested in those beasties and so cannot challenge your expertise.  Why would I?  You are clearly an expert--- and perfectly suited to analyze behavior at that level.  

I'm confident that you will keep up the commendable work.

greylorn wrote:

Jonathan Ainsley Bain wrote:It seems like it was daddy more than mommy that was mean to him
because he seems to be suffering from some sort of penile territorialism.

Its quite a common disorder in post-warfare society.
Though it is something of a mystery as to why it only affects some and not others
who come from the same environment/upbringing/genetic origin.

I reckon the key concept is simply: 'free choice'.

Whatever happened to the "be nice" component of this forum, O Ignorant Dipshit?  Oh, I get it.  It means "be nice" to the "Forum Physicist," and agree with his bullshit.  

I've found that the best way to expose forum bullshit artists is to confront them.  You've shown yourself to be a relatively ignorant person, incapable of defending his nonsense, quick to resort to puerile insults in lieu of cogent conversation.  Consider yourself exposed for the minuscule mind your irrelevant writings reflect.

Well you're getting free psychoanalysis.
That's quite a nice thing, I reckon.

I trace the history of penile territorialism back to the time of Abraham.
It is a culture based on the notion that one can somehow be 'in control'
by seemingly dominating the sexual territory through a process of
attempting to demasculinate the 'other'. It also has its roots in homo-eroticism
and the pedophalic notion of the circumcision ritual. Most specifically
it centers around a subconscious castration anxiety and early childhood trauma.

Notice how the subject states that he is 'confronting bullshit'.
This is an attempt to eradicate the fears associated with the fixation
in what Freud calls the 'anal' phase of development.

This process is often seen in lower forms of primates, where they
attempt to assert their dominance by flinging faeces at their rivals.

Obviously this is quite redundant behavior in the information age.

Prospective mothers take note: This is how your children grow up to
be potty-mouthed adults - when they struggle with fixation in the phase
of development associated with toilet-training.

Its seems, Mayflow, that you may be correct after-all.
His mama didn't train him to  deal with has caca quite so effectively
as I had first considered.

Mayflow wrote:Greylorn. You are a touchy little bitch, aren't you? Lay down on the couch and tell me your problems. Was your mommy mean to you?

I've yet to encounter a smarmy insult from a Forum Administrator, until this. Tacky.

Jonathan Ainsley Bain wrote:It seems like it was daddy more than mommy that was mean to him
because he seems to be suffering from some sort of penile territorialism.

Its quite a common disorder in post-warfare society.
Though it is something of a mystery as to why it only affects some and not others
who come from the same environment/upbringing/genetic origin.

I reckon the key concept is simply: 'free choice'.

Whatever happened to the "be nice" component of this forum, O Ignorant Dipshit?  Oh, I get it.  It means "be nice" to the "Forum Physicist," and agree with his bullshit.  

I've found that the best way to expose forum bullshit artists is to confront them.  You've shown yourself to be a relatively ignorant person, incapable of defending his nonsense, quick to resort to puerile insults in lieu of cogent conversation.  Consider yourself exposed for the minuscule mind your irrelevant writings reflect.

It seems like it was daddy more than mommy that was mean to him
because he seems to be suffering from some sort of penile territorialism.

Its quite a common disorder in post-warfare society.
Though it is something of a mystery as to why it only affects some and not others
who come from the same environment/upbringing/genetic origin.

I reckon the key concept is simply: 'free choice'.

Greylorn. You are a touchy little bitch, aren't you? Lay down on the couch and tell me your problems. Was your mommy mean to you?

Jonathan Ainsley Bain wrote:the trick to thinking clearly
is to realize that hostility is aimed by those that feel weak
to those who appear weak

the scientist's primary tool is his mind,
so the first step in innovating in the sciences is to have a thorough
grasp of psychology:-

- to see hostility as an outward projection from a weak mind -

but that does not mean merely brushing off the hostile attack
but tempering the self within it -
the proverbial fire that purifies the ore into pure metal

but ultimately learning
is about teaching the self
the cosmic infinite truths of psyche
burning these into the soul
by immersing the self in the quagmire of the debate -

- to always be ready to write in new words
to extract the subtle meanings in the mean meaning of the mean
- you know what i mean?

O Forum Physicist,

The trick to thinking clearly is to treat all illogical ideas as hostile.  

Next, one must treat the purveyors of illogical ideas as hostile members of an incompetently devised belief system, determined to put their particular brand of bullshit above all others, and to suppress all competing ideas.  

Your ideas are illogical.  They are components of an illogical system of bullshit.  You are fairly bright, but not intelligent enough to transcend the crap you've been programmed to believe.  

I invite you to grow some balls and raise your conflict with my ideas above the level of simpleminded innuendo, and on to the level of ideas.  Do you have any, of your own?

Mayflow wrote:

emoallen3433 wrote:Boss? I didn't know you joined... but this is the first place where people are nice to me. Thanks guys c:

Thanks you too. I want to be nice to everyone.

"Boss?" What a wonderfully inbred group! Being nice is a great idea, especially if the jerkoff to whom you are being nice controls your salary and your job.

May I recommend that you purchase some baby ass-wipes? They are perfect for wiping brown smudges from your lips. They also help to clean up the smell, although for the long term it will linger.

J A Bain, Forum Physicist wrote:Just an aside:
Generally if a person is nasty, or even if oneself feels a nasty urge arising within.
Stop.
Take a step back.
That's a warning sign from the subconscious,
aka COGNITIVE DISSONANCE
It means that you've neglected something, or your ideas are contradictory.

peace be with you.
;-j

O Forum Physicist:

The subconscious is merely the entire human brain, a mechanism programmed by the human brains who taught it what is true and what is not.  It is just a machine, and is inherently stupid.  Warning signs from this machine are indications that you are trying to study information contrary to that which the machine has been programmed to accept as "truth."  

Indeed, cognitive dissonance is involved.   Your brain will not accept alternative ideas that are better than the bullshit with which it has been programmed.  Just like the Pope and his coterie of pinheads could not accept Galileo's superior ideas.  And like Galileo, because of one of his own cherished beliefs that was complete bullshit, could not accept Kepler's ideas.  

It is also likely that the dimwits in charge of the agreement system known as the "Catholic Church" felt that Galileo's remarkably intelligent ideas were downright nasty infringements on the bullshit systems upon which they'd all agreed.

What your brain perceives as nastiness coming from me is simply a truthful response to an onslaught of cognitive dissonance coming from others, like yourself. Brains are really stupid. They operate well within the programming they've been taught, but cannot deal with contradictions to their programming. If you were as intelligent as you'd like to be, my ideas would come as rain upon a parched field. Unfortunately your field is soaking wet. Many pinheads have been pissing in it.

Nastiness is entirely a matter of perspective.  It is likely that Galileo Galilei felt that the Catholic Church's massed disapproval of his ideas took a nasty turn, especially when its dimwitted Pope threatened him with the inquisition.  Kepler probably felt, rightfully so, that Galileo was a nasty antagonist.  

I happen to regard you as a particularly nasty person.  You address your complaints in terms of smarmy innuendos.  Just like your photo, you live sidewise and operate like a sidewinder rattlesnake.  You can stick your phony peace up your untrustworthy ass.  You'd have made a great Pope.  

I'm putting you in the category of "dimwits who agree upon the truth of bullshit, and who will do their best to vilify, typically by innuendos, never by an upfront complaint or argument, anyone who dares to think outside of their precious and pretentious little box."

emoallen3433 wrote:Boss? I didn't know you joined... but this is the first place where people are nice to me. Thanks guys c:

Thanks you too. I want to be nice to everyone.

the trick to thinking clearly
is to realize that hostility is aimed by those that feel weak
to those who appear weak

the scientist's primary tool is his mind,
so the first step in innovating in the sciences is to have a thorough
grasp of psychology:-

- to see hostility as an outward projection from a weak mind -

but that does not mean merely brushing off the hostile attack
but tempering the self within it -
the proverbial fire that purifies the ore into pure metal

but ultimately learning
is about teaching the self
the cosmic infinite truths of psyche
burning these into the soul
by immersing the self in the quagmire of the debate -

- to always be ready to write in new words
to extract the subtle meanings in the mean meaning of the mean
- you know what i mean?

emoallen3433 wrote:I like what mayflow said.

Thanks! We will have to explore more in this area of the mind then. The open mind is vast, the closed mind is small, and there are certain things that will inhibit many minds, but let us take the approach that these things are not to be run away from but to be taken as challenges for us to grow more into the fullness of what all we really can be.

I will go into this more sometime from the more Shamanistic sort of view point (I think an open mind can approach most anything from most any type of viewpoint, but we learn as we grow and we grow as we learn).
There are from this set of viewpoints 4 enemies to us that can all be challenges and stepping stones, and when handled correctly, what would seem our roadblocks become instead our stepping stones and teachers.
The first enemy of the mind is fear. It comes in many forms and disguises – we can discuss this more fully in time. The second enemy is encountered when fear has been changed from an enemy to an ally. That’s right, our fear becomes our helper extraordinaire!

Enough for now, the next enemy to turn into an ally will be clarity of mind, followed by power, and lastly, the most intriguing one can be termed either old age or when we become ready, the master of all illusions which is death itself.

emoallen3433 wrote:I like what mayflow said.

Emo,

I goog'd PIRL and found this:

PIRL
By: CoolTouch Corporation
Medical services, cosmetic and dermatological services
Perfect for these industries

Words that describe this logo

   Medical, Beauty & Agricultural Services

medical   services     cosmetic   dermatological   services  

This is a brand page for the PIRL trademark by CoolTouch Corporation in Roseville, CA, 95747. Write a review about a product or service associated with this PIRL trademark. Or, contact the owner CoolTouch Corporation of the PIRL trademark by filing a request to communicate with the Legal Correspondent for licensing, use, and/or questions related to the PIRL trademark.

On Monday, June 07, 2004, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for PIRL by CoolTouch Corporation, Roseville, CA 95747. The USPTO has given the PIRL trademark serial number of 76596657.

The current federal status of this trademark filing is ABANDONED - NO STATEMENT OF USE FILED. The correspondent listed for PIRL is Naomi Assia of Landon IP, Inc, 1725 Jamieson Avenue, Alexandria VA 22314 .

The PIRL trademark is filed in the category of Medical, Beauty & Agricultural Services . The description provided to the USPTO for PIRL is Medical services, cosmetic and dermatological services.
_____________________
I 'm not credentialed, and do not correlate titles with with insights.  But I am wary of the many jerks who present their titles, but offer no insights.

The more I learn about you and your alleged associates, the more dubious of your mental quality I become.
You could easily be a computer designed to mimic human intelligence.  If so, your designers need to go back to school.

G